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Poster: shakeitupnow Date: Nov 21, 2010 5:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

wow. not what I expected to hear from you.
so now I'm wondering, do you know how to play music? it seems that I see a divide here on the forum -- people that can actually play music themselves seem to be impossible for furthur to win over. I'm can't play a note, and I thought friday's show in worcester was great.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 21, 2010 5:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Does this mean us "Bob Bashers" get a big fat "I Told You So?"

BTW, I don't play a note myself, so can't add to your hypothesis, but there you have it.

I know I started out on the side of giving him a break (the great ElPaso debate sometime back), and then turning to the Dark Side after viewing him; this just seems to confirm that we were right--I am still wondering what folks think the explanation is for Bob's issues...

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 21, 2010 6:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

>I am still wondering what folks think the explanation is for Bob's issues...

No idea here. He's done, and doesn't realize it/can't admit it? Time to retire. Take up hobbies.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 21, 2010 2:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Is the problem El Paso? I recall some months ago seeing a video of a horrible butchering of EP. It's got a different (if pretty common) 3/4 time signature -- maybe he just loses the count.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 21, 2010 3:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Maybe his heart is no longer in it but he feels he owes it to us (to Phil?) to keep on going. I can see how easily the weight of expectation associated with being a custodian of the Grateful Dead legacy could become stifling. Only Phil seems to have found a way of wholly embracing the past by finding ways of reinterpreting it for the future.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 21, 2010 5:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Sure, plus he's got to bear the weight of all the fans' resentment of him for still being alive while Jerry's not.

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Nov 21, 2010 8:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

I resent Chapman's aim for hitting John instead of Yoko. That makes a hell of a lot more sense than resenting Bob for living.

I was at last night's show and took the opportunity to take a bathroom break during Hells Asshole. It's now between sets of night 2 at MSG and the first set's Eyes and Viola Lee smoked.

The 2nd set WR Prelude-Part 1-Time-Let it Grow was da bomb.

This post was modified by DeadRed1971 on 2010-11-22 04:31:22

This post was modified by DeadRed1971 on 2010-11-22 04:34:48

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 22, 2010 7:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

What's "Hells asshole"?

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Nov 22, 2010 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

El Paso.

If you've ever been there in the middle of summer you'd know why.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 21, 2010 6:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Who the hell resents Bobby for living?

I just don't care to hear what he has to offer within the confines of furthur. I don't want to pay money to see any band where I have to temper my expectations.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 21, 2010 6:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Just my armchair psychoanalysis, but I think it's a factor.

Well, you don't have to see them; but really after the grateful dead, my expectations of just about anyone else are tempered.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 21, 2010 6:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Go see new or still vital live music. In the past few months I've seen great shows by Faith No More, Arcade Fire, Cold War Kids, Band of Horses, Tom Petty, drivin n cryin, and next monday I'll go see Grinderman. There's plenty of great music still being made and a lot of stuff I've yet to catch or even heard of - just gotta poke around. I've given Furthur a try but it just doesn't move me. And while I understand why people enjoy DSO, again, it doesn't move me to hear a "band" recreate another band's music. Make it new and make it your own or why bother? Thus, I'm really, really curious to see Billy K with Papa Mali and George Porter, Jr. To me, that's truly further....

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 21, 2010 6:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Sure, I take your point, we were really just analyzing why maybe Bob is having "issues" and those were possible factors (weight of fans' expectations taking a toll).

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 21, 2010 6:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Understood. And by the way, I really appreciate Bob and what he brought (and I guess still brings on occasion) to the band. Hell, I'm one of the few that really likes Black Throated Wind (and even admit to liking Brother Esau as one of the latter day songs).

Micah - have fun at 7 Walkers. Give a report. They were at Moe's in Santa Cruz right around Halloween, but it was a "school night" and I just don't bounce back like I used to for the work day and I've never been good at moderation when I go out to a show. Too much of everything...

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Nov 22, 2010 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

I'm a weir guy too. It's funny how the guy gets crapped on but was actually the one who was the force behind the GD in later years when garcia went off to La La land. Weir is actually high in the mix and almost lead on a lot of nights in 94 and 95. And yes the axe pick sound is bad and not having Jer stand out sucked but the guy really did pick up the slack for the band. I think this cancels out the fact he had ball hanger shorts and climbed the speaker tower at a show

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 22, 2010 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

lob - For my ears Bob's guitar playing evolved and become very interesting in the '80's & 90's . It wasn't the golden tones of '72 , but it fit sometimes that his guitar would sound like sheets of metal . And I like when he steps out to lead , like he did a ton in '87 , '94 , '95 ; and on many other happier times during GD's life . I like Healy's work , but my most serious complaint is his under mixing of Bob , for years .
As far as anything to do visually with Bob ......

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Nov 22, 2010 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

I agree. I think his sound in the late 80's is awesome. For me I like comparing a great deal with the GD and a great deal with JGB. I think Bob really makes that tune work. Not that there aren't awesome versions with the Jerry band but something is missing for me and it's Weir. Not to mention...I love the diversity of songs in a GD concert. I like his tunes as much as I like Garcia's.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 22, 2010 11:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

So do I . They both have one's that leave me cold . ( Picasso Moon , IMBTR ). I used to have jags were a would just listen to what Bob was doing . Still do .
He has an incredible body of work . I hope someday it's finally presented correctly .

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 22, 2010 6:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

I like Black-Throated Wind!

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 21, 2010 6:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Just under a month before the 7 Walkers . I am already excited . Going to see Deep Banana Blackout to get my funk on , Thanksgiving night .
Hey , BD I think I'm at your musical cruising speed at the moment . Whoah . Vertigo .

There is a big , strong , black women inside this little white girl .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF4bP6ZubIA

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Nov 22, 2010 7:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

Where are you seeing 7 Walkers? I'm going to see them in Bayshore in Dec.

Where is Deep Bannana Blackout playing? I used to see them at a tiny place called da Funky Fish in Bayshore - they really are fun.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 22, 2010 8:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bob drops Further...

http://www.7walkers.com/tour.html

I am going to Fairfield , and we will see about NYC and Northampton .

http://www.deepbananablackout.com/

We are going to Funksgiving @ Toads . Their tour page is in serious need of an upgrade , but from what I can tell New Haven on Turkey Eve and Fairfield on NYE .

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 21, 2010 7:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

Give us some highlights?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 21, 2010 7:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

Your name came up as we were leaving the building . As if the last voice for us to reconsider . The other side of the story here is Deb wanted to leave as much as I did . But I think she is going to begin posting more , so I will leave that for her .
There were two highlights musically that I saw . Help was really good ( but that is a highly scripted song ) as was Terrapin Flyer ( ditto). Shakedown was rolling to begin with and then it , and sadly the rest of this evening , came off the rails .
Ring over at this site , http://www.philzone.com/ , click on Discussion ( near top ) and then the top thread , Show Reviews . In that thread are some members of the ADBL . The Anti-Defamation Bob League . A certain Walter(?) was commenting on meetings ,ect.
D. & I had a great time flitting about NYC after we left , but that not the highlights you are asking for . Sorry Ring . Here , rob linked this show up for me in the spring and it's still in contention for best new music of the year ( to me ) . First 5 songs .

http://www.archive.org/details/1999-04-17.paf.sbd.miller.25297.sbeok.flacf

btw - I had to play El Paso about 10 times when I got home . I really like those cowboy tunes .

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 21, 2010 8:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

thanks. I wondered if Deb was in agreement! So she doesn't want to go today, too? Hopefully she will tell us about Worcester, was it equally disappointing or better?
I just greatly admire and respect Bob and feel bad if he's having issues, whatever they are. Nothing to be ashamed of after, what, 40 years of beautiful music? What more can we ask? It is normal not to be at the top of one's game after 40 years. I don't know how I get out the door some mornings, and I don't have thousands of people expecting me to go on being a living legend.

I was just chatting with a friend whom I've known for about 25 years, and she moved recently, and I confessed that I am unable to memorize her new phone number. If it weren't in my cell phone, I simply wouldn't be able to call her, 'cus I can't memorize new phone numbers. I am senile. Bob has a few years on me and is doin' pretty good all things considered ...

(haven't checked out your links yet but will later on)

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Poster: Dancin'Deb Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I'm hoping that I can put into words what happened for me last night. First, let me start by saying that I had an amazing time in Worcester and I thought they sounded great. The DCU Center was so relaxed...it was kind of like security decided to just let us have fun. It was great and I would go again in a heartbeat to see Furthur there!
Unfortunately, MSG was not anywhere near relaxed. I had forgotten how much I dislike it there...I can't stand the hallways and it brings out my claustrophobia. The security was ridiculous and wouldn't let us dance really anywhere inside the arena (you could dance in the bigger entrances, I believe).
What I've realized, after a lot of reflection as to why I wanted to leave last night, is that going to dance to the music and going to just listen to the music are 2 very different things. I have a hard time picking out instruments, so I tend to listen to music as a whole . I can't speak of their technical problems but as a whole, I didn't think they sounded great. I couldn't dance last night as there was no place for me to do so without leaving S and I didn't want to do that so I actually paid attention more to the music. I didn't hate it, it just didn't sound cohesive. Maybe something happens to the music when I spin...I don't know, but it sounded great to me Friday night in Worcester. And, I agree Ring, after 40 years I think they we should cut Bobby some slack...though I am concerned for him.
So these were the things that led to us leaving...during Dark Star...who leaves during Dark Star?? but it was the right decision for us. I will absolutely go see them again (and again...I need more shows:) but I don't think I will ever go to MSG again!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 21, 2010 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

This is really helpful Deb, 'cus it confirms for me that we would not have had a good time, that MSG is just not the way to do it. My husband is in NYC frequently on business and basically hates it (he's not a city boy at all). He is also claustrophobic and would have probably freaked out - maybe we need to stick to the very open and relaxed venues, hopefully the Mann next summer, or I haven't been to Mohegan Sun, have you seen them there? also he asked me if they were loud and I said no, they didn't seem loud to me at all at the Mann last summer so it is interesting to hear from Sean that they are loud indoors.

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Poster: Dancin'Deb Date: Nov 21, 2010 12:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I had a completely different experience at Mohegan Sun than ShakeItUp...I found the staff to be similar to MSG...but it was wide open...they just wouldn't let us dance anywhere...they kept saying (at Mohegan Sun) "You paid for the space in front of your seat..that is where you get to dance"...obviously, they had never been to a Grateful Dead show before, hmmmppffh!

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Poster: shakeitupnow Date: Nov 21, 2010 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I will defer to you -- I only went once and had great seats, so I never really wandered off.

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Poster: Dancin'Deb Date: Nov 21, 2010 12:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

Once we made our way to the back of the floor and could dance, it was great fun. I guess I'm just getting finicky in my 40's...all I want to do is dance and if I can't do that then it's no fun! I wonder how the Nokia would be?

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Nov 21, 2010 4:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I'm glad you and your hub are still on the quest and I can live vicariously. At my age, dancing has been reduced to a periodic wiggle. Listening has taken on a whole new meaning. That is, when I can get my hearing aid adjusted right. :)

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Poster: shakeitupnow Date: Nov 21, 2010 11:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

You would like Mohegan Sun - it's wide open and the staff are reasonably relaxed.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Nov 22, 2010 7:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

Where I was (sec 219) folks were dancing up a storm and no security in site, was also dancing in the aisle dead center behind stage (sec 215) and were not bothered at all. I grew up in LI and saw many shows at MSG & Nassau so am probably used to it. My overall experience at MSG is some security guys take their job very seriously and some don't it all depends on the section, so I usually move around till I find a good section.

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Nov 22, 2010 2:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I still put Bob Carpenter Center at the U of Delaware the worst place they've played yet by a long shot. Their security is jackbooted Gestapo campus police and staties everywhere.

We had no problem up in the 300's on the first night of MSG with any security. Come to think of it I never saw them the whole night.

The second night I was on the floor and no one really bothered us then either.



Attachment: Photo-0060.jpg

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

counterexample here - i'm a pretty fluent musician and I think Furthur is really great. Not really even close to the best of the grateful dead, but that's not really a fair rubric to judge them by. I agree that Kadlecik is extremely skilled but his sensibilities just aren't on the same level as Garcia's were. His phrasing is all right, but it's just not even close to jerry.

However, they still reach some pretty great highs, and while I'd never listen to Furthur on my headphones over the grateful dead, they put on a DAMN good concert. And micah, they do listen to each other pretty attentively. I think the difference is they're just not adventurous enough, they don't really experiment except with their predetermined set lists. Last night was a really great show, SO solid and crisp I thought, but they don't take as many risks for whatever reason. They don't really take any risks, come to think of it.

The highlight of last night was the Death Don't. I was chilled to the bone. Bob sounded amazing singing it, and John spun out the most thoughtful solo I've ever heard him play. The tension was incredible.

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Poster: shakeitupnow Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

OK, so my theory about musicianship is blown.
Maybe it's as simple as managing your expectations heading into a Furthur show....

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I think so. I went with very very low expectations - repeat to self endlessly, This is not the Grateful Dead. Anything beyond that is a pleasant surprise and there turned out to be a lot of pleasant surprises!!

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I think that's probably about right.

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Poster: Dancin'Deb Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I couldn't agree more. If you're going to expect to hear the Grateful Dead you will be terribly disappointed. If you're going to have a good time while it's still here, then you will most likely have a really good time...if not, just leave during Dark Star ;)

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 21, 2010 11:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I respect your opinion MC . I think a lot has to do with how much Garcia influenced you as an artist , directly , live . People speak often of believing he was singing to only them . He was able to deliver such a high emotional content to his voice , combined with a breadth and depth of musicianship that also brought a high emotional impact . He was the one , the focal point that some have mentioned is missing in Further . While listening to Furthur I hear his lines in my head all the time . He knew how to sculpt notes and mostly pick that right ones . He was at times fearless on stage . I am realizing how rare that is . It takes a certain brass to have no real idea were you are going musically and it all could crash and burn in front of thousands of people . And it did . And he still would go back out on the edge . Most artists just don't put themselves out there like he did . It's just too frightening . He was truly a Great Artist . I miss him more , not less as time goes on .
Furthur is not GD . But , it's hard to not have all that history in your head when I go see them . I think that Bobby and Phil combining forces and passing the torch to the next generation of musicians and fans is a true gift . They do not have to do this . It must be love .
MC , I'll give the DDHNM is listen . Now , I have about 5 others just jumped into my head cause that is one of my favs . If I waste 10' , I comin' lookin' for you MC .;-)

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Nov 21, 2010 11:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I agree with everything you said there. As I said, Furthur doesn't come anywhere close to the spiritual intensity that Garcia had to offer when he was on. And I do think that, having been too young to have seen them live, I have an altogether different attitude going to these post-Jerry shows; more of a gift that I get to see them play together at all. The dead will always live primarily in my tapes, and so my relationship with them will always be chiefly a private one, but it's pretty glorious to see these two guys, my gods to some extent, playing together happily and joyously.

In that sense I'm somewhat grateful to be so young, because it enables me to see Furthur for what they are rather than trying to compare them to faded memories of what their music is emulating.

And micah - I still can't believe you walked out! Dark Star > The Other One > St. Stephen > The Eleven > Death Don't > Franklin's Tower!!! You left just when the good stuff was starting to pour out. I agree that El Paso was totally lame, though.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 21, 2010 12:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

You are right MC . I am ruined for what is now It's just the way it is . While you see/hear opportunity . That's why I try to find a balance between being honest and not trashing the fans or the overall experience . You are the next torchbearers .

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 21, 2010 9:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I am not a musician siun .
I think I need outdoor shows with less people . I 'll go to Coney Island and GOV . And hopefully will see you there . Deb was at DCU Friday and had a great time . But , I'll let her respond .
You haven't been around as much . Hope you are well .:-)

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Poster: shakeitupnow Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

oh I wish I knew Dancin' Deb was there -- I would have loved to meet the lady.
so sorry you didn't have a good show last night. Have you tried seeing Dark Star Orchestra? What did you think of them?

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Poster: Dancin'Deb Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I LOVE DSO! Maybe we could meet at a DSO show...I'm still working on getting S to go with me! Maybe we can tag team him ;)

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Poster: shakeitupnow Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I'm hoping to see DSO again soon -- was looking at their calendar and there isn't anything out my way (boston) anytime soon. I've only seen them twice, but I thought they were a lot of fun.

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Poster: Dancin'Deb Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I'm hoping to go to see them on 12/30 in Bridgeport...but that's a hike for you!

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Poster: Dancin'Deb Date: Nov 21, 2010 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I had soooo much fun in Worcester! (and I can't play a note of music :)

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Poster: pigpen_81 Date: Nov 22, 2010 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I had a great time at the Worc. show as well. I have noticed that Bobby seems to drifting a bit tho. He spends an inordinate amount of time playing with knobs and sliders on his Amp/Sound-system and it really effects the chi ;)
There were moments I found myself standing still staring around the arena just looking because I was bored and the rhythm had left my body. At times though I was in full vibration and dancing as mush as I could in the small space I had.
I also found that when things were waning I could focus on Phil and has playing would bring me right back into the groove.
I enjoyed Worc. and was kicking myself for not doing MSG when I saw the set lists. But after reading some of this I am glad I went to see Dylan Sat. nite. That's a whole other story.. his band was extremely tight and they all played very well but Bob's (Dylan) voice was gravely as hell. I'm sure that's another thread tho ;)

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 22, 2010 10:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

We are seeing him this Saturday so I'd be interested in your review.

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Poster: pigpen_81 Date: Nov 23, 2010 9:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

Ringo,
Set list is below. As I said earlier he and the band were tight. He switched back and forth from guitar to piano for different songs with occasional harmonica. The stage/set was pretty cool. They had a backdrop that wrapped the stage and they had different industrial & natural type images projected onto it. they also had some low angled lights projecting the bands shadows up on the backdrop overlaying the other images. It was very artsy and I thought it was really cool.
Bob's voice was the only drawback but it certainly didn't ruin it. I just wish he sounded better. He did change up arrangements on some of the songs and it was good. I had a great time and enjoyed the crowd/stage/band/show.
Some of the highlights for me were..

Stuck Inside Of Mobile
Visions Of Johanna
Tangled Up In Blue
Highway 61 Revisited
Not Dark Yet
Ballad Of A Thin Man

Well,... hope that was helpful and that you enjoy the show.
Peace..

1. Gonna Change My Way Of Thinking
2. It Ain't Me, Babe
3. Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again
4. Love Sick
5. Rollin' And Tumblin'
6. Simple Twist Of Fate
7. Honest With Me
8. Visions Of Johanna
9. Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum
10. Tangled Up In Blue
11. Highway 61 Revisited
12. Not Dark Yet
13. Thunder On The Mountain
14. Ballad Of A Thin Man
15. Jolene
16. Like A Rolling Stone

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 23, 2010 10:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

Thanks! Appreciate it.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Nov 22, 2010 10:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

I saw Dylan back in early September and the band was great and he broke out a lot of tunes not "typical" of recent setlists. I loved the reworked arrangements on some tunes but the voice can be a bit hard to get over at times. Gargling pebbles. HOwever, at other times it really came through. And a caveat on going to shows with diminished expectations - with Dylan, you always have to consider the voice will not be a thing of beauty. That said, I had a great time.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 22, 2010 11:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

Thanks, we're really looking forward to it (even the teenager considers it worthwhile).

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 22, 2010 11:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur

You can really see that on vids of recent shows.

edit - this referred to Bobby fiddling with equipment.

This post was modified by ringolevio on 2010-11-22 19:35:38